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[Music]

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this is the saucer afterlife listener

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feedback

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segment mini episode

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whatever we call it for

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the zine scene um

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alan greenfield's para ufologist and

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like most scene scene episodes there

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isn't a huge amount of

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feedback people seem to like them but

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people don't necessarily have a lot to

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say about them which is

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honestly not something i'm too worried

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about so first up from the the chiso

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media patreon at

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patreon.commedia we have kirk who says i

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agree that greenfield is an interesting

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fellow to your knowledge did he publicly

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express any of his interest in the

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magical or a cult approach to ufos back

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in his zen days or did he only reveal

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that side of himself later on

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so

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i've not done a super extensive

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read-through of every magazine that

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greenfield put out but some of them were

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much more focused

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on magical or occult or philosophical

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topics rather than ufos and in some of

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them particularly

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the alternate horizons newsletter which

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was running as far as i can tell some of

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these files don't have

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dates on them but i think alternate

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horizons was running sort of

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parallel to the para ufologist

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alternate horizons was the official

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publication it says of the foundation

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for philosophic advancement so

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not a a ufo

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organization as such as as much of any

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of these as any of these organizations

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that people put together are you know

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super

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you know detailed and everything like

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that but the alternate horizons

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newsletter was um sort of dedicated to

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looking at the ar theory or the

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alternate

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reality theory and so this is kind of

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like the

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not too different from the s ultra

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terrestrial hypothesis that people like

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john keel put forward and things like

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that

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so there's one

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sort of passage

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in the first issue of the alternate

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horizons newsletter where greenfield

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talks about um some thoughts he has on

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the alternate reality theory or

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hypothesis and i think some of these are

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kind of interesting from a

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sort of broader look at what greenfield

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will talk about over the wider course of

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his career

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he says for example many of the counts

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of contact or near contact seem to be

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true to the extent that they are

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reasonably accurate subjective accounts

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of actual experiences of one kind or

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another but there are amazing but

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relevant indications that these

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experiences will accurate so far as the

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witness is concerned and while having

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objective external stimuli are viewed

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within the context of the observer's own

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background experience also there is the

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distinct possibility that some amount of

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willful deception

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may be involved

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and he also

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points out

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sort of in a similar vein in a q a

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section about the alternate reality

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theory the cue

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sorry the question is is the ar theory

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science or mysticism

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and greenfield replies science while on

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the surface the ar theory might seem to

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imply a mystical attitude to the

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contrary it is an attempt to explain in

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objective scientific terms various

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phenomena previously relegated to

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mysticism and cultism the ar theory

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firmly recognizes the basic concepts of

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logic and fixed reality but maintains

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that if we are to fully understand the

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objective nature of reality we must have

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an expanded frame of reference a broader

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view

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now this isn't

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necessarily explicit explicitly mystical

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magical

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what have you um and in in this latter

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case seems to turn away from that kind

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of um

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kind of definitively

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but at the same time i think you can

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sort of see a trajectory of where of

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where some of this might be going but in

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the publications i've looked at

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he does sort of stick to

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ufo type things in the ufo magazines

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there are other zines he put out that

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might have been a little more

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magical mystical

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what have you but

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at this point he's keeping these things

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a bit more separate than he would later

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in books like um secret cipher of the

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euphonauts and

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the rituals of the men in black

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book for example so but again like i

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said i think

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you can sort of sense a

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trajectory although it might be the sort

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of trajectory where you don't know

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you're sensing it until you look at it

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from the other direction if that makes

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sense

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not an entirely satisfying answer i will

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admit uh blackwolf on twitter says i

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enjoyed this episode because it seemed

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that the greenfield persona was pretty

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fully formed by the early 70s yeah i

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agree in addition to sort of seeing a

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trajectory of where his his thoughts and

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ideas and things might be uh might be

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headed at least in retrospect there is a

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definite

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irreverence toward the subject a very

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good sense of humor the the ufo

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presenter or

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that story that we looked at is a prime

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example of that yeah i can i can hear

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greenfield's voice and the voice i

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recognize from you know the last few

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years hearing him at conferences and

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presentations and things like i can hear

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that voice saying the things that are in

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these newsletters and magazines

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absolutely so thanks for that feedback

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feedback feedback and i just wanted to

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give a little preview of what's coming

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up in the next few weeks with uh morris

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k jessup and then

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the broader philadelphia experiment and

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then the montauk project sort of

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sequence of episodes i'm still not sure

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how long or how many episodes that's

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going to comprise at least to

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maybe three um and one of the things

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that's really interesting is seeing how

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the morris k jessup aspect of it has

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changed as i've worked on

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the research and background for this um

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i was going to go through all of

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jessup's books not just the one that you

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know gets tied into the philadelphia

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experiment stuff but i

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i don't know it just seems like there's

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just too much um once we get into

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uh the mysterious carl m allen slash

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carlos

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allende um the pronunciation of his name

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is kind of a

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um a sticking point for some writers

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it's it's an interesting little side

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note but anyway that's coming up i think

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it's going to be

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those episodes where i'm going to have

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to have numerous disclaimers that

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yes i know there are you know abcde

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things that i could be talking about or

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talking about in more depth but

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honestly the entire philadelphia

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experiment saga could be an entire

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podcast series i'm not sure i could

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handle listening to an entire podcast

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series just about the philadelphia

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experiment

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but boy it's uh it's a doozy and that's

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before you even get into the stuff that

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starts going in the 1990s so next week

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it's going to be if you're listening to

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this in real time or maybe immediately

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if you've got a few of these stacked up

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it's going to be morris k jessup um carl

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m allen slash

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carlos allende

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and just the the genesis of all of this

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we've got the borderlands science

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research associates folks we've got some

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gray barker we've got john keel running

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around and i've got massive amounts of

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credits and

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acknowledgments to

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um to provide for

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help in finding materials that

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i would not have been able to otherwise

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so it's going to be fun and i'm looking

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forward to it and i hope you are too

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well thanks a lot for listening

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we'll be back next time and we'll talk